{"id":113675,"date":"2022-11-25T16:30:19","date_gmt":"2022-11-25T16:30:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/musically.com\/?p=113675"},"modified":"2025-03-04T15:45:34","modified_gmt":"2025-03-04T15:45:34","slug":"last-fm-20-music-tech-michael-horan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/musically.com\/2022\/11\/25\/last-fm-20-music-tech-michael-horan\/","title":{"rendered":"Last.fm is 20: VP of Product Michael Horan on Last.fm\u2019s 20 years in music-tech &#8211; and the future of data in the music industry"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This article from <a href=\"https:\/\/last.fm\">Last.fm<\/a> is <\/span><\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/musically.com\/partner-content\/\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Partner Content<\/span><\/i><\/a><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Music Ally Focus Podcast recently welcomed Michael Horan, VP of Product at <a href=\"http:\/\/last.fm\/\">Last.fm<\/a>, which is just about to hit a remarkable milestone: 20 years as a music tech company. In that time,&nbsp;Last.fm has gathered an enormous amount of data on how people listen to music \u2013 and we wanted to talk to Michael about what Last.fm has learned from a music business that has changed dramatically in two decades.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/last.fm\/\">Last.fm<\/a> has grown from a company that tracked what you were listening to in your mp3 and CD collection to what you listen to everywhere online, and Michael explained to Music Ally\u2019s Joe Sparrow the changes in how data has been used, and what changes are needed so that data can continue to be used in innovative ways to build communities and connect audiences with artists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>You can listen to the podcast in the player below, and we have also pulled out the key discussion points for you to read.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/anchor.fm\/musically\/embed\/episodes\/Music-Ally-Focus-Ep--83-Last-fm-is-20--VP-of-Product-Michael-Horan-on-Last-fms-20-years-in-music-tech--and-the-future-of-data-in-the-music-industry-e1qht27\" width=\"600px\" height=\"102px\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"20-years-is-a-long-time\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">20 years is a long time!<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><strong>Joe Sparrow:<\/strong> First of all, let\u2019s acknowledge that Last.fm is 20 years old. That\u2019s a big anniversary in in any terms, but in particularly in music technology that stretch of time.&nbsp;As you look back at two decades of the platform, what do you think are the big things that last FM has brought to the music business in that time? Whether that\u2019s innovations or technologies, or just a mindset, what is it?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>Michael Horan:<\/b> It is impressive \u2013 20 years seems to be pretty incredible. You know, when we started out, frankly, the reason that we did start out was to keep track of what people were trying to discover on the available platforms at the time. This predates iTunes and streaming services in general were pretty small.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They didn\u2019t have that widespread adoption, so being able to track what people are listening to from these disparate sources was really important. You wouldn\u2019t be able to remember what you would listen to. And there was such a huge variety. People went from having small collections at home of CDs or vinyl to the internet \u2013 full of all the music, ever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So that\u2019s really how we started. And you know, that kernel still exists in us. Our primary function is to keep track of people\u2019s listening histories across all available platforms, and to keep it in one dedicated repository. So the industry has changed, as you say. There\u2019s been so many services that have popped up and, and faded away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=700%2C700&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-113679\" height=\"700\" width=\"700\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?w=1152&amp;ssl=1 1152w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=500%2C500&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=150%2C150&amp;ssl=1 150w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=768%2C768&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=800%2C800&amp;ssl=1 800w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=600%2C600&amp;ssl=1 600w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=400%2C400&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?resize=200%2C200&amp;ssl=1 200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/musicallyFocus-michael-horan-lastfm.jpg?w=370 370w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And for us, the, the one consistent thing is that we\u2019re still here \u2013 and we\u2019re still doing what we have always wanted to do, which is to allow people to keep track of everything they listen to. We started as well as a radio service, which we no longer do. And that was arguably a good decision on our behalf because we were the first global service \u2013&nbsp;and we introduced this idea of a lean-back listening experience where you could passively choose your favourite artist, and immediately, a never-ending stream of music that was related to that was played. And the more you listen, the better the listening experience became. We\u2019ve seen people who listen to music are no longer just pleased with this lean-back experience. They want to be more engaged and more involved in how the music is playing.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it\u2019s important to remember that when we started, none of the current climate existed \u2013&nbsp;and we were pretty much one of a handful of services that offered music to people that weren\u2019t tied to a specific catalogue. It was as wide as the imagination could be. It used to be that you were told what to listen to, and now it\u2019s become a place where you decide what you\u2019re going to listen to. And that\u2019s a really big distinction in the way that listening has changed over the past 20 years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-do-users-want-from-their-data\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What do users want from their data?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS:<\/i><\/b><i> The service you\u2019ve described is almost taken for granted now, which is: we track your listening history. I think when most people think of that now, they think of it in one particular platform, like they consume music over here and it\u2019s all recorded somewhere.<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><i>People still want what Last.fm does \u2013 so why do they want that? What, by having all their listing history grouped together, does it present to them that maybe they\u2019re not aware of?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH:<\/b> So, before 2002, when we first launched, people would listen in in many disparate ways. They\u2019d listen through their CD collections, and CD collections of friends. They\u2019d listen on the radio, they\u2019d go to a local record shop and hear new music that way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was a very sort of transactional experience where you were given a very small selection and you had to choose without really being able to know what you were hearing. You had to choose what you would invest your money in. Obviously around the turn of the millennium things changed a bit with peer-to-peer and, you know, that caused havoc in the music industry at large because suddenly, people were stealing music, but also people were given limitless access. Last.fm allowed you to keep track of that limitless access, and effectively reduced the catalog from \u201ceverything\u201d to \u201cthings that were interesting to you.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As streaming services come and go, we\u2019re able to go with you. We become somewhat like a musical passport. So it isn\u2019t just this assumption that everybody listens on a single platform and they only listen that way, and that streaming service has all the information they need. In reality you\u2019re going to other places \u2013 similar to going to a friend\u2019s house or going to a record store or going to a gig.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People don\u2019t listen just one way and they want to keep track no matter where they are. So we\u2019re able to do that, and for 20 years we\u2019ve managed to follow people between services that no longer exist and services that you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s this infinite amount of choice that sometimes they can\u2019t cut through that noise. They\u2019re stuck in whatever realm they\u2019re being moved into. Whereas with us, we follow them. We don\u2019t tell them where to go. We just follow them along. So it\u2019s an incredibly passive thing, scrobbling, it\u2019s very passive. And when you then come back and see what you\u2019ve done, and reflect on what\u2019s happened, you have a better sense of where you\u2019re going to go next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=700%2C436&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-113682\" height=\"436\" width=\"700\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?w=2452&amp;ssl=1 2452w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=500%2C311&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=700%2C436&amp;ssl=1 700w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=768%2C478&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=1536%2C956&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=2048%2C1275&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=1200%2C747&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=1568%2C976&amp;ssl=1 1568w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?resize=400%2C249&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.34.jpg?w=370 370w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"how-is-data-used-differently-now-and-how-will-it-be-used\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">How is data used differently now? And how will it be used?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>You\u2019ve been scrobbling data for decades \u2013 plural \u2013 now and that\u2019s a lot of data\u2026 a frightening amount of data in some ways! What have you noticed about how that data is used \u2013 perhaps from the listener\u2019s perspective, but also by the people and businesses that plug into that data, and try and find things in it? How is that changing?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>There\u2019s personal user listening data and there\u2019s that aggregated global data \u2013 and of course you can segment it any way you want, but a lot of our focus historically has been on the user\u2019s personal data. The personal data is everything for us \u2013 the global data is a byproduct, and it\u2019s incredibly valuable.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019ve seen a lot of services and companies that have grown over the past 20 years, and a lot of them have been acquired by, music services to help pad their offer, or to give more insights, to, say, artists or labels, in order to give them a better sense of where their music\u2019s being consumed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s all great, but by focusing on the user\u2019s listening history \u2013 and giving them the insights that they need \u2013&nbsp;they have constant access to their entire listening histories. And that distinction\u2019s really important because we are seeing that more and more music listeners are interested in what data they\u2019re offering up \u2013 and they want control over how that data\u2019s used.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What we\u2019re trying to do is give them the tools to reflect and see what their trends are, see what things have changed in their lives that have affected their listening histories.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We were initially one of the few sources where people could get third party music listening data, and a lot of the time right now, there\u2019s these weird distinctions where it\u2019s considered proprietary data: nobody else can have it. That\u2019s definitely a business decision that people will make \u2013 and I understand that value. We\u2019re trying to unlock that in a certain respect because we don\u2019t feel like we can shield our users from accessing their own data.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it\u2019s really important for us that there\u2019s an openness to what we\u2019re collecting and how we\u2019re providing it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=700%2C410&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-113681\" height=\"410\" width=\"700\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?w=2454&amp;ssl=1 2454w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=500%2C293&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=700%2C410&amp;ssl=1 700w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=768%2C449&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=1536%2C899&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=2048%2C1198&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=1200%2C702&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=1568%2C918&amp;ssl=1 1568w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?resize=400%2C234&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-16.49.21.jpg?w=370 370w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>Music listening maybe is subconscious, to an extent: users just want to listen to this or that, and then it\u2019s recorded \u2013&nbsp;and it can have consequences in the future if you wish to plug that data into something else. What are the potential future uses for this kind of data that we haven\u2019t imagined yet? We\u2019re moving perhaps into a music industry where the use of music is going to be in virtual experiences, in gaming, it\u2019ll be interactive, or AI generated, and it\u2019ll be web3 music and decentralized. So where are the opportunities for that listening history to be used in these new places?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>You know, you can\u2019t necessarily differentiate a pop fan, from a metal fan, from a jazz fan. They\u2019re all personal experiences to those users, and a lot of what our role should be is allowing people to connect, based on those unique passions. So, in the future, it, it really does come down to what technologies develop for how people are able to explore and discover new music.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We want to be able to facilitate those relationships between people. There have been dozens of marriages that we\u2019ve been told about off the back of people using Last.fm! That\u2019s how personal these passions are. If you find somebody else who has an equally passionate response to an artist, that\u2019s a deep and meaningful connection that we can facilitate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think a lot of what our role is going to be in the future is, how do we identify these communities, around people\u2019s personal experiences reflecting their musical tastes. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I feel for musical artists right now because they\u2019re spending more time being owners of their social profiles rather than creating music and anything that we can do to help these passions \u2013 whether it\u2019s with artists or other musical fans \u2013 that\u2019s a really important aspect. I think right now that is being lost because so much effort\u2019s being put on, \u201chow many pieces of content am I producing a day, a week, a month?\u201d from an artist.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think Last.fm\u2019s role in the future will have to be how do you maintain<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp; <\/span>this log of what people are listening to, and how that can combine people together and drive organic growth of communities.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>Community building is obviously a huge focus of artists now and the fans: it\u2019s something that both ends want \u2013&nbsp;a direct connection between the two. There\u2019s a reason that artists are setting up Patreons and Discord servers and building these direct connections. Do you think that fans or music listeners are becoming more conscious of what they do, in relation to their favourite artists?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>Yes. There\u2019s a certain level of \u201cprove it\u201d \u2013 where \u201cI\u2019m the biggest fan of X\u201d. So with Last.fm I can prove that \u2013 and you see a lot of people getting into these arguments! \u201cYou don\u2019t know anything \u2013 you didn\u2019t start listening to this person until last year!\u201d We have proof of how big of a fan somebody is; we have proof of who discovered what first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don\u2019t want to say that we want to encourage that competitiveness, but at the same time there is a certain level of authenticity in our data where you can\u2019t really cheat it\u2026 there\u2019s evidence to support whether or not you are a fan of an artist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>It\u2019s interesting you say that because so many new technologies are emerging around proof of fandom. I hate to bring NFTs into the conversation, but one suggested desirable use of NFTs is to say, okay, I was at Ed Sheeran\u2019s second show: I am a real fan. But there\u2019s also people are hanging around the waiting room before a launch of a new YouTube video. And you know it would be interesting to see who really watched the video when it was first launched. And that has meaning in fan communities, doesn\u2019t it? \u201cI was there. I was part of it.\u201d<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>Yes. And that\u2019s what we see people using our data for. You know, there\u2019s a lot of plugins right now that are being used across a variety of digital platforms: I actually did this \u2013 and we are the evidence.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=700%2C493&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-113683\" height=\"493\" width=\"700\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?w=2072&amp;ssl=1 2072w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=500%2C352&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=700%2C493&amp;ssl=1 700w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=768%2C541&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=1536%2C1082&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=2048%2C1443&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=1200%2C846&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=1568%2C1105&amp;ssl=1 1568w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?resize=400%2C282&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.27.00.jpg?w=370 370w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-data-does-the-modern-industry-need\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What data does the modern industry need?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>Let\u2019s look at the present in 2022. The music industry is a data industry and a tech industry as much as anything else. Now, you\u2019re able to look back at 20 years of data and have that context. What sort of data does the modern music industry need? Are there any changes that could be made around data collection analysis that would be useful?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>Yes, massively. Right now, everything is limited by the quality of the data that goes in. There\u2019s a known quantity of music that\u2019s out there, but every day there\u2019s thousands of new releases. And a lot of this, you know, is provided with some level of <i>laziness<\/i>, I\u2019ll say! You know, a remaster, a reissue: it\u2019s just a means to pop it up in people\u2019s periphery.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think the big problem right now is ambiguous artist names. There is no clean way to verify that a particular artist <i>is<\/i> that particular artist. You can have 13 Nirvanas if you wanted to, \u2013&nbsp;there isn\u2019t really a international code of standards. I know there\u2019s a lot of initiatives and people doing a lot of work to resolve this fundamental issue: and it\u2019s still in progress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We would love to say that we have plans to be the best source of metadata going forward, but right now we\u2019re really limited by what we\u2019re receiving. So it\u2019d be great if everybody got together and agrees that this is the standard for what makes an artist an artist, what makes a songwriter a songwriter, and just keep people honest. It sort of feels like it should be simple, but it also is difficult getting everyone in a room and saying, let\u2019s sit down and figure this out, and let\u2019s all agree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I mean, there are tens of millions, if not more, of artists\u2026 they\u2019re seemingly infinite!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One strength of Last.fm is if you were ever in a band 15 years ago, the likelihood is we have information on them. It\u2019s interesting, and that\u2019s, I guess, going back to being able to say \u201cprove it.\u201d We had somebody start at Last.fm recently and he was shocked to learn that we have his albums\u2019 metadata on the site, and<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp; <\/span>people could theoretically discover him.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s the powerful asset. But the problem is if he had a shared name with a different artist, we wouldn\u2019t necessarily be able to resolve that. So part of the strength is in that infinite amount of data that\u2019s out there, but the hardest part is to clean it up and consolidate it in a meaningful way. And nobody has corrected that yet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS<\/i><\/b><i>: How confident do you feel that it might be fixed?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>It will \u2013 it has to. A lot of conversations, especially in the past five years, go back to royalties \u2013&nbsp;and it\u2019s critical to resolve that. There\u2019s a lot of people who are being sidelined because they can\u2019t prove that their music is theirs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=700%2C431&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-113684\" height=\"431\" width=\"700\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?w=1724&amp;ssl=1 1724w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=500%2C308&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=700%2C431&amp;ssl=1 700w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=768%2C473&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=1536%2C946&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=1200%2C739&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=1568%2C966&amp;ssl=1 1568w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?resize=400%2C246&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screenshot-2022-11-25-at-17.28.25.jpg?w=370 370w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"users-needs-in-2022-and-escaping-the-algorithmnbsp\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Users\u2019 needs in 2022 \u2013 and escaping the algorithm<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\"> <\/span><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: W<\/i><\/b><i>hat have you learned about the needs of users? When you speak to users of, let\u2019s say, streaming platforms, they sort of assume that the algorithm is sort of \u201ctaking care of them\u201d and it\u2019ll present the music they need. But I also wonder if there\u2019s a growing idea that people also want to discover for themselves and be a bit of a micro-influencer in their friend group. And how do you do that if you\u2019re relying on an algorithm? So what are very modern consumers looking for in their experience and how does data fit into that?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>That\u2019s a really good question. I have recently seen a lot of articles suggesting that people are dropping their subscriptions and going back to their local catalogues they have stored\u2026 that \u201csearch bar paralysis\u201d where people just don\u2019t what to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Algorithms are very helpful, but they\u2019re not everything. The most powerful recommendation is a personal one. And that can\u2019t be lost. So that\u2019s that sense of <i>peer to peer<\/i> \u2013&nbsp; I don\u2019t mean in the technology sense \u2013&nbsp;I mean people talking about their musical tastes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Really what we focus on is what you\u2019ve listened to, and creating safe places for people to be able to communicate to one another \u2013 because that\u2019s the strongest connection that people will have with music. There is a general distrust for algorithms. They\u2019re very helpful, they\u2019re very useful as a starting place, but they\u2019re not everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You\u2019re going to find that a lot of algorithms miss a lot. I\u2019m confident that ours is, is fairly strong, but at the end of the day, it\u2019s more important for people to connect on a platform, than to just trust in the algorithm. So the data that\u2019s missing is the user input and that\u2019s part and parcel of our algorithm: we pay attention to when people aren\u2019t interested in something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Just because I like a specific album by an artist doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m going to like all of [their music]. There\u2019s an evolution when it comes to music, and it\u2019s important to distinguish a song from an album from an artist. Those things aren\u2019t necessarily all connected. It\u2019s a great place to begin. But if I\u2019m not interested in this other album, don\u2019t tell me about it later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS:<\/i><\/b><i> What we\u2019re talking about here repeatedly is community and, and as you say, fans grouping around an album or a cluster of albums or a micro scene. It\u2019s one of the things that a lot of the big incumbent streaming platforms, for instance, have shied away from. They don\u2019t want to introduce that into the mix on their platforms or apps, but it definitely feels like something that is desired by fans and artists. And is that something which is gonna be fulfilled in the, in the next few years?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>I would love to say yes. It\u2019s very important. Of course, it\u2019s a moderation nightmare! But I do think there are ways that you can approach it where you\u2019re not alienating specific users and you\u2019re not welcoming other types of users. For the most part, people have shied away from it because they\u2019re more focused on, say, selling more music. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m not going to say that we have all the tools that we want, or that we strive for, but it\u2019s going to be a focus for us going into the future \u2013&nbsp;where we see these communities are being formed on Last.fm that we didn\u2019t necessarily expect. And it\u2019s obvious that there is a need in the market for people to fill that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"the-next-20-years\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">The next 20 years<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b><i>JS: <\/i><\/b><i>Let\u2019s look ahead to the next 20 years. What happens next for Last.fm?<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>MH: <\/b>I think it\u2019s going to be really important that we keep track of where the music industry is going in general. Web3, the metaverse, the blockchain, all of these sort of buzzwords \u2013 we\u2019re taking a keen interest in them and we want to ensure that we\u2019re where people are consuming music, and tracking what they\u2019re listening to.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are a lot of other threads that we could pull at, but I think, you know, the most important thing for us is to be where users are and allow them to just continue aggregating all of their plays, all of their passions in one place, and see what we can build on top of that.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This article from Last.fm is Partner Content. The Music Ally Focus Podcast recently welcomed Michael Horan, VP of Product at Last.fm, which is just about to hit a remarkable milestone: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":87702,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":"","newspack_ads_suppress_ads":false,"newspack_popups_has_disabled_popups":false,"newspack_sponsor_sponsorship_scope":"","newspack_sponsor_native_byline_display":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_native_category_display":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_underwriter_style":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_underwriter_placement":"inherit","_EventAllDay":false,"_EventTimezone":"","_EventStartDate":"","_EventEndDate":"","_EventStartDateUTC":"","_EventEndDateUTC":"","_EventShowMap":false,"_EventShowMapLink":false,"_EventURL":"","_EventCost":"","_EventCostDescription":"","_EventCurrencySymbol":"","_EventCurrencyCode":"","_EventCurrencyPosition":"","_EventDateTimeSeparator":"","_EventTimeRangeSeparator":"","_EventOrganizerID":[],"_EventVenueID":[],"_OrganizerEmail":"","_OrganizerPhone":"","_OrganizerWebsite":"","_VenueAddress":"","_VenueCity":"","_VenueCountry":"","_VenueProvince":"","_VenueState":"","_VenueZip":"","_VenuePhone":"","_VenueURL":"","_VenueStateProvince":"","_VenueLat":"","_VenueLng":"","_VenueShowMap":false,"_VenueShowMapLink":false,"_newspack_byline_active":false,"_newspack_byline":"","newspack_hide_updated_date":false,"newspack_show_updated_date":false,"newspack_content_restriction_is_exempt":false,"scaip_prevent_shortcode_addition":false,"newspack_featured_image_position":"","newspack_post_subtitle":"","newspack_article_summary_title":"Overview:","newspack_article_summary":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"{title}\n\n{excerpt}\n\n{url}","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"dois","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"_wpas_customize_per_network":false},"categories":[21920],"tags":[6309,8857,656,6646],"newspack_spnsrs_tax":[],"coauthors":[22834],"class_list":["post-113675","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-co-labs","tag-direct-to-fan","tag-interviews","tag-last-fm","tag-music-tech","entry"],"parsely":{"version":"1.1.0","canonical_url":"https:\/\/musically.com\/2022\/11\/25\/last-fm-20-music-tech-michael-horan\/","smart_links":{"inbound":0,"outbound":0},"traffic_boost_suggestions_count":0,"meta":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Last.fm is 20: VP of Product Michael Horan on Last.fm\u2019s 20 years in music-tech &#8211; 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Shops, apparently, push out their Christmas stock earlier and earlier and everyone is giddy with festive delight even before Halloween is over.\u00a0 Except no one seems to have told music streamers this because the musical lift-off for Christmas holds to a relatively\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Co-Labs&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Co-Labs","link":"https:\/\/musically.com\/category\/co-labs\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/lastfmXMAS.jpg?fit=1200%2C606&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/lastfmXMAS.jpg?fit=1200%2C606&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/lastfmXMAS.jpg?fit=1200%2C606&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/lastfmXMAS.jpg?fit=1200%2C606&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/lastfmXMAS.jpg?fit=1200%2C606&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":113836,"url":"https:\/\/musically.com\/2022\/12\/05\/listen-and-learn-understanding-uneven-album-consumption\/","url_meta":{"origin":113675,"position":1},"title":"Listen and learn: understanding uneven album consumption","author":"Music Ally","date":"December 5, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"How much of a classic album do you actually listen to? It turns out that even the most loftily-held LPs have a surprising number of tracks that modern listeners tend to skip en masse. In the physical age, albums were often designed as \u2013 or, at least, presented as \u2013\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Co-Labs&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Co-Labs","link":"https:\/\/musically.com\/category\/co-labs\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/lastfmclassicalbumsheader.jpg?fit=1193%2C599&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/lastfmclassicalbumsheader.jpg?fit=1193%2C599&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/lastfmclassicalbumsheader.jpg?fit=1193%2C599&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/lastfmclassicalbumsheader.jpg?fit=1193%2C599&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/musically.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/lastfmclassicalbumsheader.jpg?fit=1193%2C599&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":113665,"url":"https:\/\/musically.com\/2022\/11\/29\/k-pops-global-rise-a-series-of-well-planned-explosions-rather-than-a-single-big-bang\/","url_meta":{"origin":113675,"position":2},"title":"K-pop\u2019s global rise: a series of well-planned explosions rather than a single big bang","author":"Music Ally","date":"November 29, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"This article from Last.fm is Partner Content. Most eruptions in pop music happen over a long period of time rather than immediately. \u2018Heartbreak Hotel\u2019 was Elvis\u2019s first US number 1, but his sixth single (albeit his first on RCA Victor). 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