Team Talk is Music Ally’s interview series, where our marketing experts speak to music industry teams about their latest work, best practices, and smart strategies. You can find the archive here.
In this Team Talk, Music Ally COO Patrick Ross speaks with Suhel Nafar, head of Empire’s West Asia and North Africa and the diaspora (WANA) division, in advance of their session on 15th May at Music Biz, titled “Glocalization + Collaboration = The New Globalization?” Here, they discuss applying geographic labels to music, telling stories with hip-hop, and communicating culture to the diaspora.
Patrick Ross: Empire is one of the first companies I’ve heard to actually use the “WANA” terminology in terms of a localised business. Can you tell me more about why you chose it and what it means in terms of Empire’s wider strategy?
Suhel Nafar: “Middle East” is a Eurocentric and colonialist term. Geographically the ‘Middle East’ is only east when looking at us from the European perspective which puts them at the center of the world. But if you’re standing anywhere else in the world, it’s West Asia. So if we’re building a new generation of independent artists, we also need to liberate ourselves from the colonialist framework – and using the term WANA pushes that paradigm shift. No more being defined by somebody else’s narrative, it’s about our autonomy and defining our own culture and spaces.
Patrick Ross: How different places refer to each other really does hold a lot of power and creates an immediate perception, doesn’t it? What was the discussion in Empire to adopt the WANA terminology and to champion it?
Suhel Nafar: We represent a new generation that work hard to unlock their creativity and break barriers. We have a team that supports artists and their fans to change a broken system while globalizing our cultures. So even if it sometimes gets tiring to explain why it’s WANA and not MENA, we have a responsibility to lead with it and not wait for when the fight against the term MENA has become a big issue, and then just follow the trend. Ghazi (Shami) built Empire as a music, culture and tech hub, and not a label that chases what’s hot, so it made sense to run the WANA term with him.
Patrick Ross: How does that connect to the concept of “glocalization”?
Suhel Nafar: The WANA region is really diverse and there’s so many cultures in the region. The world is getting smaller, and the concept of crossover cultures is getting bigger. You can see this reflected in the sounds of Mahraganat (a type of Egyptian folk/electro music) where you have traditional Shaabi music which adopted the sonic elements of Hip Hop merging with autotune.
This genre is a perfect example of what “glocalization” means – because it is local by its soul and by its narrative, but it’s global by some of the elements in its sound. So the way I look at it really is first of all, how you can bring a global genre and localize it – and then, second, how can you take your local culture, and export it globally.
“The new generation is not a “one culture” kid – they’re mixed. They’re the Taco Shawarma”
English was something that was fascinating to me not because of the language but because I wanted to understand why Tupac was angry. And that’s how I learned English. That’s how I also adopted the culture and became a hip-hop artist myself. And that is also glocalization: I localized it and started rapping about myself as a Palestinian living under the Israeli Occupation Forces and oppressed by Israeli colonization.
I knew that there’s a lot of similarities between me as a Palestinian kid and that African American rapper who’s getting chased by a cop. But I do feel like the new generation is not a “one culture” kid – they’re mixed. They’re Taco Shawarma. The new generation is a hybrid of many things because the world is getting smaller and we’re getting more familiar and exposed to other cultures.
Patrick Ross: So how does all that integrate into how you actually plan release strategies and create successful campaigns?
Suhel Nafar: I can give you one example of a project the WANA team is excited about working on now. 40% of Empire WANA releases in 2023 were Arab female artists. If you compare that to other other genres or other labels, that is a high percentage. In a male dominated industry, my team really tries to challenge those norms and I’m really proud of them for that.
To amplify our female artists we’re collaborating with the Empire Dance team on an album that will be a collaboration between Arab female singers and female producers from around the globe. So, for example, you will hear a song by a Palestinian artist that’s produced by a South African artist.
Patrick Ross: Do you think the industry over- or under-estimates the importance of this glocalization trend? Do you think that the industry should be talking about it more?
Suhel Nafar: The industry, a lot of the time, is late. You always see a minority of people in those labels and DSP offices saying, “hey look here” (at this new trend) and these ideas get lost as missed opportunities. It takes time for the leads of these companies to catch up.
What I want to tell the industry right now is that the diaspora is its own market. A lot of times, when it comes to “the diaspora”, those companies have people locally trying to handle that market and I believe what we need to be doing is building the bridge between both the local culture and the diaspora, led out of the diaspora. But the industry still doesn’t understand how to manage it.
Patrick Ross: How would you like to see what you’re putting into place now, in five to ten years time? What do you hope will happen?
Suhel Nafar: I’m excited to see a new genre that will then take titles, terms and culture to a different place. And this is because I do believe you can build branding for a culture – but one song can make a big change. So all we need is that one song to go global with a new sound and that will change everything.
Salaam everyone, The Arabs are here to make Arab culture pop while taking over pop culture.
